Oppopolitics

"mkbruin, Atlas VP" (mkbruin) 11/10/2016 at 08:52 • Filed to: None

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Honest question about protests inside:

“During that debate, Donald said something — well, he said a lot of things that were troubling. But he said something truly horrifying: He became the first person running for president, Republican or Democrat, who refused to say that he would respect the results of this election,” Clinton said at an Oct. 24 rally in New Hampshire. “Now that is a direct threat to our democracy.”

How do you square the absolute heap of shit shoveled on Trump following the third debate, including Clintons’ own comments, versus the protests we see now.

Tekamul > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 08:56

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The protests are not an attempt to change the outcome, they are only there to voice dissatisfaction.

Very few of the people protesting are politicians, and none of them were in this contest.

Pixel > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 08:57

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Clinton acknowledged his win and conceded the election. This is exactly the opposite of what he said he would do.

There is a massive difference between supports of a candidate refusing to accept the results of an election and the candidate them self refusing to acknowledge it.

Needmoargarage > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:00

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On a side note I’d be interested to see how many protesters voted. A lot of people I know ‘protested voted’ by declining to vote, and now they are unhappy with the outcome.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:01

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While I agree with you slightly and also felt like Clinton repeatedly delaying her concession speech was pretty pathetic, I don’t feel like the protests are an attempt to undermine the result, which is different from what The Donald was encouraging in the case of his loss. Yes, there were people there last night who did seriously think that The Donald would suddenly have a change of heart and step down (which would be worse because Pence), for the most part it was about making a point that there’s a huge group of people who he’s been shitting on for the last year that aren’t just going to disappear. It was a display of discontent and reminder that he has alot of bridges to mend.

bhtooefr > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:05

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The protests aren’t Clinton’s doing. She respected the results of the election, and conceded on election night. The implication was that Trump would not have, and would have filed legal challenges to change the outcome of the election.

In any case, even though the protests aren’t going to do a damn thing about the outcome of the election on a national level, they can have national effects down the line, and they can have local effects. Organized and focused anger is a useful tool for getting things done on both sides - Bernie Sanders got far, far further in the Democratic primaries than he would have, without using the anger stoked by movements like Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter in a productive manner. The protests can act as a way to channel that anger into changing things in, for instance, the 2018 midterms.

The protests can also serve to show local politicians that the Trump’s policies are not going to be tolerable, and that it would be worth their while to fight those policies being implemented locally.

B/Xmrrmvr > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:05

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People protesting the results:

vondon302 > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:06

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Well one thing is true that he said the media definitely has a bias against conservatives. And before I get flamed I voted for HRC even though I can’t stand the Clintons. Trump is an egotistical narcissist but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.

yamahog > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:14

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Individual citizens protesting vs a presidential candidate saying he would violate a tradition of peaceful succession if he didn’t get his way? Absolute apples and oranges.

bhtooefr > vondon302 11/10/2016 at 09:27

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I wouldn’t say that they have a bias against conservatives, as much as they have a bias for pro-business centrists - those of us on the actual left got screwed by the media too, after all.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:27

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The funniest/saddest thing I heard the other day, “the secret service better do a damn good job protecting him(Trump), because you know they’re going to try to kill him. Those Liberals and Globalistsare all evil, crooks, and they can’t be trusted.”

These words came from a man who is a respected business owner, who as openly said he hates Muslums, gays, Mexicans, and Native Americans(a big issues where I live. And who would be talking about assainating Clinton himself if this election had good the other way.

As for people protesting the Trump election, they’re just doing it to soon wait until after he looses the Trump University trial.

PS9 > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:31

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Protestors aren’t presidential candidates. Because of this, they don’t have the power to convince 1/2 (or more, depending on the balance of power) of all elected officials in government that the president elect is fraudulent, and therefore block all of his/her cabinet appointments, refuse to hold hearings for candidates of the supreme court, refuse to fund the administration’s domestic agenda, block all legislation that might reflect administration policy, etc.,

Given all that, The reason this possibility represents ‘a threat to our democracy’ should be readily apparent to you. What is the difference between a victory denied legitimacy, and a loss? The effect is the same; the person you voted for has no political power. If people think the leaders they choose will not be recognized as such by the institutions we elect them to run, those institutions will lose the complicity of the people to govern, and our democracy will disintegrate.

vondon302 > bhtooefr 11/10/2016 at 09:40

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Well at this point I think we need some centrist attitudes. This far left and far right governmental see saw is ridiculous.

DipodomysDeserti > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:45

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1. Protesters aren’t presidential candidates

2. Protesting is an action protected by the constitution and one of the bedrocks of a democratic society.

3. They aren’t protesting the legitimacy of the results, they’re protesting the bigoted language used by their president elect

4. These protests are organized by private citizens, not the Clinton campaign

5. You better get used to seeing protests, because more than half the country didn’t vote for this guy, and he made a lot of bigoted comments towards a lot of people. One of those groups isn’t a minority in some of our largest states, and won’t be a minority in the country in a decade or two.

6. Don’t even try to give me non-argument of “if the tables were turned” bs, because I witnessed plenty of Tea Party protests over the years, and no one gave them grief about not having a right to protest.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 09:53

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Both parties and most politicians (and now, it seems, a lot of people who support one side or the other) talk out of both sides of their mouths. Here’s a recent headline about the party that’s there for the common worker: “DNC Hit With Overtime Class Action By Pa. Campaign Workers.” And the first graph from the article: “The Democratic National Committee and Pennsylvania Democratic Committee failed to pay overtime to campaign organizers who often worked up to 80 or 90 hours per week in voter registration and engagement efforts, a proposed collective and class action in Pennsylvania federal court alleged Wednesday.” I had one friend who support Trump post on FB early Tuesday evening about how BS it was that Trump was wining the pop vote and was behind in the electoral college. Once Clinton took over the pop vote lead, I asked him if he had changed his opinion of the electoral college. lol

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > vondon302 11/10/2016 at 10:33

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Reality has been proven to have a heavy liberal bias.

So, yes, the ‘media’ is biased against conservatives, in that when they debunk a lot of what conservatives believe with facts, it makes them seem biased against those ideas.

bhtooefr > vondon302 11/10/2016 at 10:36

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What far left?

The US doesn’t have a functioning far left, thanks to the Democrats and their “vote for us because we’re not the far right” tactics, and our first-past-the-post elections and district-based representation promoting the two-party system.

And if you think Hillary Clinton is far left... she really isn’t. That’s why I said “the actual left” - even Bernie Sanders isn’t that far left in global terms, even if he’s at the very limits of the Overton window for the US.

vondon302 > bhtooefr 11/10/2016 at 10:44

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Your opinion not mine Bernie is far left in the United States which what we’re talking about not the world. I’ll Agree to disagree on this minor point.

Future next gen S2000 owner > mkbruin, Atlas VP 11/10/2016 at 11:11

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I never thought of it as a threat as his challenging the results would strengthen the process and our faith in it. Hear me out.

Let’s say Trump lost and sued. The lawsuit would be expedited, votes would be recounted, and the Supreme Court would have the final word in short order. As I don’t think that any significant amount of voter fraud would be found (I would think some where on the order of 1,000-10,000 votes total, not anywhere near enough to actually affect the outcome) the recount and courts would most likely find in favor of Clinton. Trump would be out of options. All he could do is whine about it like Obama’s birth certificate stuff and it would be relegated to the fringe. He would go back to his business and the US would move on.

Ultimately his challenge would reinforce the legitimacy of our democratic process.

But he won, so we never went down this road. Maybe I’m completely out of my element and this is just another in a long line of worthless opinions on the internet.

Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 11/10/2016 at 12:08

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The guy you’re talking about sounds like he’s a dick, but it is clear that throughout this election those against Trump have disproportionately  resorted to violence . Even as recently as the current protests, Trump supporters are being beaten and Trump dolls are being paraded on a noose . Also, during his campaign, Trump has had multiple people rush his stage.

So, regardless of his opinions, I think his concerns are at least justified. Also, feel free to brush up on the Ad Hominem fallacy, since it looks like you’re applying it here.